Tuesday, the 17th of September 2002

The opinions and statements made in this chat session belong to the individuals posting them and appear in unedited form to promote the free exchange of information. However, they may not represent the views and/or policies of the Georgia Center for Resources and Support.

Amy Parks: Welcome to those here to the GCARS Chat on Educational Issues and Adoptive Children.

Amy Parks: Welcome Lisa S

Amy Parks: We have with us teacherdeb who is a high school special ed teacher and doctoral student in special ed. admin.

chatadmin: Thanks for coming, deb

Amy Parks: teacher deb, how can adoptive parents work with special ed teachers?

teacherdeb: I'm happy to be here.

Amy Parks: Welcome back, Cathy.

teacherdeb: The first step is to make contact with the school and communicate with the special education teacher.

teacherdeb: The next step is to review the special education file to determine the needs of your child.

lisa s: teacher deb, how long have you been teaching?

teacherdeb: I have been teaching for 5 years.

Amy Parks: Deb, Have you worked with adoptive children?

Amy Parks: Deb, Have you worked with adoptive children?

lisa s: teacher deb, has there been a change in parent involement during the past five years?

chatadmin: There seem to be several teachers involved with my adhd grandson (4th grade). Who is in charge?

Kim: How do parents get the right testing for there children, when we know there is a problem

lisa s: teacher deb, has there been a change in parent involement during the past five years?

Amy Parks: Welcome, Anna.

teacherdeb: Yes I have.

teacherdeb: The first step in the process of getting testing is to request an Student support team meeting.

Amy Parks: Welcome Cindy.

teacherdeb: The student support team can recommend the appropriate testing if the student is not already in special ed.

Kim: yes but how do you know what to ask for? after a student support team

Amy Parks: Good questions, thanks. Deb, if you have a long answer type"..." to let us know you are continuing a thought. Thanks.

lisa s: Who is on the student support team?

Kim: Our student support team has not recommended any testing even though my son is definately behind in reading

teacherdeb: What specific concerns do you have regarding testing?

Amy Parks: Welcome, Shannon.

cindy: Hi everyone

teacherdeb: The goal of the SST is to provide the necessary support for students without referring them to special education.

Shannon H: Hi. Sorry I am late.

chatadmin: what kind of support?

teacherdeb: Interventions should be implemented in the regular classroom before a referral to special education is made.

Amy Parks: Glad to have another parent, Shannon, anytime.

lisa s: teacherdeb, if a parent feels like there is a problem with their child...

chatadmin: Kim, what was your question about testing?

Shannon H: I'm just listening for a while.

Amy Parks: Welcome, Rosalie.

teacherdeb: Interventions could include: a reading receovery program, working with the school reading specialist, etc.

lisa s: and the teacher does not, who would they then contact?

teacherdeb: You could contact the grade level administrator and speak to them about your concerns.

lisa: Deb...what does one do if the school holds the child back (because he is "slow"), but do not believe he needs special ed

Kim: I just wondered at what point do they recommend testing,

Rosalie: hello everyone, I will am working, so I will be in and out of this chat... just trying to catch up

Amy Parks: Welcome, Andrea.

Shannon H: Here is something else to think about. What if the child doesn't even have English as a first language, then what? This is becoming prevalent in many schools. Does anyone know what is happening in these cases?

andreas: Thank you

teacherdeb: Some children may have difficulty with the meeting the educational objectives, but may not meet the criteria for a disability.

teacherdeb: Students who speak another language as their first language can be evaluated through nonverbal tests, but the results are not very accurate.

Amy Parks: Welcome, Anna.

andreas: Hi, Anna

chatadmin: Can someone ask to have the difference in the disability criteria to a parent? who do they ask?

lisa: so being held back for two consecutive years would not be abnormal

Kim: When we have children with emotional promblems that we know interfear with school work how do we communicate this to educators

Amy Parks: The families that I know that have adopted internationally have often kept their kids out and home schooled for a while.

chatadmin: sorry...

teacherdeb: If a parent wants to know about the disability criteria they can ask the special ed teacher at their school or access the information at www.gadoe.org

Kim: without sounding like we are making excuses for the

cindy: when you have a child with austic problems and teachers are unfamiliar with austism how can you advocate for this child without making teachers etc, feel threaten?

chatadmin: I meant to say have it explained

Amy Parks: Dr. Ray Ashurst is trying to join us. He is a therapist and school counselor. He should be along soon.

teacherdeb: If a parent wants to know about the disability criteria they can ask the special ed teacher at their school or access the information at www.gadoe.org

Amy Parks: Good website.

chatadmin: Thanks!deb

Shannon H: This family, and seemingly the school, are seemingly at a loss. The family only had this child six weeks before putting him in school. I was wondering why so soon myself.

Catherine Da: There are some children that fall through the cracks. The IQ is not low enough to qualify for special education classes. These children are classified as slow learners. The student support team should decide what would be best for the child

teacherdeb: Regarding the child with autism: teachers are responsible for academics, social skills and community skills for students with autism

Rosalie: hi anna

Amy Parks: Cindy has a good question...anyone have any ideas on advocating for adopted special ed kids?

lisa: well, they suggested tutoring services, which we all know are hard to come by..especially in rural areas

Amy Parks: Welcome, Dr. Ashurst. Dr. Ashurst is a private therapist and school counselor in Union County Georgia.

Anna G: hi everone

teacherdeb: Therefore, in order to meet these many areas you may need to specify what your specific concerns are related to your child.

Shannon H: I think the tutoring issue is statewide, unfortunately. Hi Anna.

Kim: hello?

Amy Parks: For those of you who have recently joined us, teacherdeb is a special ed. teacher in Gwinnett County.

chatadmin: Are home-bound teachers ever an option in Georgia?

andreas: Yes, I'm getting weekly requests for tutoring.

cindy: but when teachers don't seem to know the rights of the child how can we advocate for them?

ray: greetings from the GA mountains

teacherdeb: Information is the key for parents to be advocates for their children.

Amy Parks: Hi, Kim.

Shannon H: Hi Ray

ray: greetings from the GA mountains

ray: greetings from the GA mountains

andreas: I've only seen homebound teachers in medical cases...surgery, sickness, etc

Amy Parks: Dr. Ray, how have adoptive parents advocated for their children in your schools?

lisa: welcome Dr. Ray

teacherdeb: Support groups for specific disabilities exist such as CHADD and the Council for Exceptional Children.

ray: newspaper articles-feature stories

ray: personal contact with local judges

Shannon H: In the particular case I am working with, the parents seem to be throwing their hands up (with the Russian child) and expecting the school to do a great deal. I just wondered what the school is responsible for in reality.

cindy: welcome Ray, Hi Anna

teacherdeb: A specific list of parent rights is available at the GA Doe website and if a teacher is not following those then the administration in the school needs to be informed of that fact.

Shannon H: As well as what the parents need to accomplish?

Amy Parks: Ray/Deb, do either of you see specific adoption related issues in special ed?

teacherdeb: The first step for the child from Russia should be an evaluation for ESOL services. What grade level is this child?

teacherdeb: It is important for adoptive parents to find out the educational history and records for their children.

lisa: what is ESOL?

chatadmin: Do teachers and parents usually end up opposing each other? Shoudl we be educating teachers, and if so, how?

ray: waiting for the school to take the responsibility can be a long process because of the many other tasks that it must perform in today's society

Shannon H: Third grade, but only because the school decided at nine, that is where he needed to be. We have a very weak ESOL program, I think.

Shannon H: ESL is English as a Second Language

teacherdeb: The information in previous psychological evaluation could be very important.

Shannon H: I don;t remember what the O is for.

teacherdeb: Parents and teachers should work as a team in the best interest of the child.

lisa: thanxs, Shannon

Amy Parks: I think international adoptive families have very unique issues and need special support.

Shannon H: Absolutely, but I think everyone feels out of control with this one.

Amy Parks: Deb, what if I don't want a lot of my adopted child's history known...how much do we discuss with teachers?

Cathy: Amy, can you be more specific on what you mean

Shannon H: Hi Lisa Shaw!

chatadmin: Could they request home-bound for a few months for an international adopted child?

Amy Parks: What do you think, Ray?

lisa s: Hello again.

teacherdeb: The educational portion of their history is critical for teachers to be able to help the children effectively, however other personal/family information is not relevant for teachers.

ray: I would suggest going through the school counselor about the child's history

Amy Parks: Cathy, internationally adoptive children are not just grieving a loss of birth parents but of homeland, culture, familiar language/foods, etc.

Cathy: thanks!

lisa s: Dr. Ray, Someone may have asked this already...

ray: and then allow the counselor to use discretion with the teacher of what should be shared

Shannon H: It is hard to keep the child's history from being known schoolwide, especially in the rural areas. I have been privy to incredibly personal things regarding students, and I am just at the school alot and not in any official capacity.

lisa s: But do you believe it is necessary for the school to know if a child is adopted? Not an older child, but one adopted at birth?

andreas: I agree Shannon, I've subbed and heard it all in the lounge.

Amy Parks: I feel that is wrong, Shannon. I wouldn't want my child's personal info spread around to anyone!

teacherdeb: I don't think that the teachers need to know that the child is adopted especially from birth.

lisa s: I agree, especially after what I just read from Andrea and Shannon Hoy.

Cathy: I agree with that because you do not want your child to be pre-judged or pittied

ray: lisa, the more info the school administration and counselors have, the better they can understand

Shannon H: You'd be amazed. But I lovingly disagree that the teachers don;t need to know the child is adopted. Issues come up regarding this that may need to be addressed. 24.240.146.105 ~ September 17, Tuesday 9:39:01 p.m. ~

Amy Parks: I must respectfully disagree...

ray: even if the child is adopted at birth, one still must deal with DNA factors at some point

andreas: Any research on this?

lisa s: If a problem arises yes....

cindy: with the tutoring being cut back where can we go for resources for this very much needed service?

andreas: Any studies related to the adopted chilld and school?

Amy Parks: especially as children get older, teachers need to be aware and you don't want a child thinking it is a "dirty secret"!

lisa s: But I don't think because a child has a problem, it must auto. be labled "an adoption" problem.

Kim: How do you advocate for your emotionally disturbed child without informing the school of diagnoses

chatadmin: Issues like "family trees" need teacher sensitivity.

lisa: good question cindy

Amy Parks: Cindy, you can contact our office at 1866APARENT and be connected to a resource advisor in your area. They can help you.

teacherdeb: The No Child Left Behind Act will require that more tutoring options will be given to children especially in schools that are struggling.

ray: kim, if your child is going to be serviced in Special Education, a diagnosis is very much needed and probably required

Shannon H: Oh, Lisa, I agree. That's the danger in the school knowing too much. But I still believe the information should be shared to some degree. Lots of involvement on the parents' part could stem the tide of gossip. I've seen that happen too.

ray: andreas, you will find info on the internet about adoption

teacherdeb: I think that the best answer to the information question is to use common sense and pick those people and situations in which you share information carefully.

Shannon H: Re tutoring, there is a program here called Communities in the Schools that offfers tutoring. Maybe other regions have this group.

lisa s: teacherdeb, I agree.

Cathy: i agree, you really need to be selective with who you share in depth information with

Kim: I have given them dianoses and they still dont get it

lisa s: How would you handle teachers who will not allow

Shannon H: discretion is everything. It is easy to find the teachers who use it and those who don't.

lisa s: older children in the process of being adopted to not...

Shannon H: The problem for my Russian student's school is the asst. principal is the gossip. I think it has made his difficult situation worse to some degree.

teacherdeb: If your child has a medical diagnosis of a condidtion and the condidtion is impacting their ability to be successful at school they may be eligible for services through special education.

lisa s: use their "new" last names?

ray: kim, you have to stay persistent with them and one day they might just get it 162.39.196.100 ~ September 17, Tuesday 9:45:50 p.m. ~

Shannon H: The use of the new last name sounds merely like a control issue with the teacher. There are too many more vital issues to work on.

lisa s: Then Shannon, I do not think that asst. principal needs to be in a capacity where they work with children.

Kim: my children have many dianoses and all I ever hear is he is just like all the kids he doesn't want to do his work but I see him struggling

teacherdeb: If you are having problems with the assistant principal then the principal needs to be made aware of the situation.

teacherdeb: If you are having problems with the assistant principal then the principal needs to be made aware of the situation.

ray: it is called the 504 Plan, I believe, teacherdeb 162.39.196.100 ~ September 17, Tuesday 9:47:55 p.m. ~

lisa: Lisa S..if the parents have legal documentations showing a name change, isn't the school obligated to change their name

Shannon H: I agree with teacherdeb and Lisa. It is a hard situation. The principal is aware, but always readily available. Most of it happens when she is not there.

teacherdeb: A 504 plan can be written for some students to address some modifications in the classroom for students who meet 504 eligibility.

lisa s: Yes Lisa they are. But it is the in between time. The waiting for the finalization of the adoption to take place, that some parents and children are having problems.

teacherdeb: If there is legal documentation then the permanent shcool records must reflect the legal names of the children.

Anna G: Kim, then go further, to the board of education, then the state education offices

Shannon H: I think so Lisa. I don't know why she would be resistive. Seems like she would want to be on board and supportive. That is kind of odd, isn't it?

ray: kim, tell the administration that you want your child under the Student Support Team and NOW 162.39.196.100 ~ September 17, Tuesday 9:49:51 p.m. ~

lisa: oh.....undstood

lisa: oh.....undstood

Amy Parks: There is not a lot that can be done until finalization.

chatadmin: medical only, or psychological like a teachers aid or translator?(504 that is)

Kim: I like the the way you think Ray

Amy Parks: Regarding the name change, I mean.

lisa s: brb

lisa: oops! 165.121.65.215 ~ September 17, Tuesday 9:51:44 p.m. ~

ray: lisa, you are correct--the school must abide by court decisions 162.39.196.100 ~ September 17, Tuesday 9:51:47 p.m. ~

Amy Parks: Ray/Deb, Have you had to fight for adopted kids in special ed?

teacherdeb: 504 accomodations provide modifications such as extended time, tests read aloud but typically does not commit resources because there is no funding for that program

lisa: 165.121.65.215 ~ September 17, Tuesday 9:52:29 p.m. ~

Kim: Thanks Anna

ray: thanks 162.39.196.100 ~ September 17, Tuesday 9:52:46 p.m. ~

teacherdeb: I think that students who are adopted have many of the same issues that other students with disabilities have and my job is to be an advocate for all students.

ray: absolutely not, amy 162.39.196.100 ~ September 17, Tuesday 9:54:17 p.m. ~

Kim: They would not let my children use my name util I took the adoption decree to them

Amy Parks: We have about 5 more minutes to chat...any more burning questions?

Shannon H: I wish there were more like you, teacherdeb.

chatadmin: Shannon, lets stay on after the chat ends and talk about your Russian child some more. I have some thoughts.

Anna G: Kim, probably because they did not want to change records.

Amy Parks: Me too, Shannon. Call me.

Cathy: I have been very fortunate not to have any problems with the schools that my sons have attended reguarding name change, special ed issues, and adoption has never been an issue

teacherdeb: As parents lets remember that teachers do their jobs not to get a pay check but because they care about kids and there are many great teachers out there.

Shannon H: I would love this. It is hard for the parents, the school and the teacher is tearing his hair out. Everyone is feeling out of control on this one. I'm not even the worker for this case.

lisa s: How refreshing Cathy, I am sure not everone has problems.

Kim: Is the 504 the same as a student support team I was told that is was

Amy Parks: Good point, Deb! I agree!

ray: kim, the school has to remain very careful and very, very legal, so the adoption decree is not against you personally 162.39.196.100 ~ September 17, Tuesday 9:57:36 p.m. ~

cindy: mn

Cathy: the right approach and adequate knowledge of your rights makes all the difference

lisa: thanks 4 all the info...i'm gonna have to leave

Shannon H: That's where the most work is needed in this case, I think.

teacherdeb: Yes Kim

Anna G: I'm with Kim some schools do take things personall

ray: the student support team and the 504 Plan to hand-in-hand 162.39.196.100 ~ September 17, Tuesday 9:58:47 p.m. ~

chatadmin: I am taking some good thoughts from tonigh about re-testing and the Student Support Team. Thanks

lisa: bye 165.121.65.215 ~ September 17, Tuesday 9:59:06 p.m. ~

Amy Parks: Another great resource, parents, is the book Adovcating for Your Child's Education available by calling The GA Advocacy Office...

lisa s: Goodnight Lisa

Shannon H: bye everyone who is leaving. Chat admin. You still there?

Amy Parks: 1800 537-2329.

andreas: bye

chatadmin: yes, Shannon, i'll stay

Anna G: bye all

Amy Parks: Thank you to our special guests, Deb and Ray!

Amy Parks: Anyone that would like to stay, feel free.

chatadmin: Many thanks

Kim: 67.216.206.136 ~ September 17, Tuesday 10:01:11 p.m. ~

lisa s: Thanks Deb and Ray, you have been helpful.

Cathy: thanks to Dr. Ray and Teachdeb!! 216.128.168.136 ~ September 17, Tuesday 10:01:22 p.m. ~

teacherdeb: Good night all! I have an early morning with my students. 65.82.159.123 ~ September 17, Tuesday 10:01:25 p.m. ~

Shannon H: Thank you so much. It is nice to talk to folks who are involved in other ways.

Amy Parks: Our center appreciates your participation. Please check out the rest of our website, special guests and parents!

lisa s: Thanks, Amy. I have checked out the website and it is really great. Good informtaion.

chatadmin: Shannon, I am wondering if a community resource...

Kim: 67.216.206.136 ~ September 17, Tuesday 10:03:27 p.m. ~

Shannon H: Cindy, I think I may have a way for you to get the lady we discussed on the phone by phone.

chatadmin: might be found who would volunteer as a

Cathy: thanks amy for a great job as facilitator, goodnight everyone! 216.128.168.136 ~ September 17, Tuesday 10:03:54 p.m. ~

lisa s: Goodnight Cathy.

chatadmin: translator for at least a few hours during the school day.

Amy Parks: Translator is a great idea? Local university student?

chatadmin: Right, Amy.What kinds of problems is the child having?

lisa s: Great idea. Chat admin. I know of a therapist I just contacted who speaks Russian.

Amy Parks: Shannon, I have a family to connect them with in No. GA. w/ their permission.

Kim: 67.216.206.136 ~ September 17, Tuesday 10:05:29 p.m. ~

Shannon H: WEll, the family found one lady fairly nearby who is Russian, but taught English in Russia. However, I think they have had difficulty in working with her. I am not sure what the issue is. I am kind of waiting to see if she works out. I want her to come to the school, but we are still working out the bugs.

cindy: is everyone still there, I was kicked off line

lisa s: Still here Cindy.

chatadmin: There are also web sites that might help -- in Russian!

chatadmin: I might be able to contact a social worker in Russia, or the placing agency might. To offer the child some support

Shannon H: One of the key issues is the "drawing back" of the family. They are not coming to conferences, school nights, anything. The school is more bewildered by this than anything. I think they are simply overwhelmed.

cindy: Shannon, it would be great , i checked the phone book she is not listed

Amy Parks: Might I suggest we continue our discussions in the staff office?

lisa s: Meet you there Amy.

chatadmin: good idea, staff office. I'll be the last to turn out the lights here, after Amy.

Shannon H: Sure. This one will certainly be ongoing til then, that's for sure!

cindy: do we have any one in the chat room that is not an advisor?

Shannon H: Cindy, I will get back with you. Talk to you then. Who is coming to the staffing?

Amy Parks: Thanks again, Ray, if you're still there. Looking forward to talking to you again soon.

chatadmin: We are on public archive. I'll be in the staff office soon.

Shannon H: Should we say goodnight then?

chatadmin: bye

Amy Parks: Shannon and Catherine, head over to the staff office.

Amy Parks: bye

Shannon H: Goodnight all. See you at staff. Hi Kim. You back?